Reset Summons Raid Zone Mob Progression?

[Praetorian]

Should it be done?

[Nabu]

It seems counter productive now that the final phase is opened.

[Tiger]

Considering guilds have made progression-kill based decisions after it was decided, I'd say no.... This has been live for months now.

[Harrysnotters]

Done is done. The expansion is so easy its been who could raid first that got the kills. Lets move on and hope next expansion has some challenging content.

[Igor]

It's been complained about in discord this site changes its goal posts and how things are calculated mid expansion by more than one guild. I appreciate you asking for vote up front, but please don't change things just so one guild can move up in rank.

[Requiem-Majdul]

By that logic, it should have never been changed from being separate in the first place... because there were progression-kill based decisions before it was arbitrarily decided.

[ikeyfoxx]

Does the same line of thinking work for you in the opposite direction, where this change was initially brought on via crying so a guild could retain their rank...? Pretty sure that's what this change resulted in.

[Belton]

By that logic, it should have never been changed from being separate in the first place... because there were progression-kill based decisions before it was arbitrarily decided.

Bump for emphasis~

[Requiem-Majdul]

It was changed mid expansion so that one guild could move up in rank... so why would this be any different?

[Praetorian]

It's been complained about in discord this site changes its goal posts and how things are calculated mid expansion by more than one guild. I appreciate you asking for vote up front, but please don't change things just so one guild can move up in rank.

It hasnt been requested by one guild. In fact, multiple guilds individuals outside the top 5 requested the change take place. If it was one guild only asking to change it I wouldnt have bothered putting this up. I know how the ranks will look if it goes back to original. It wont change by much. Infact most of the changes are going to be after the top 5 spots.

[Praetorian]

It was changed mid expansion so that one guild could move up in rank... so why would this be any different?

I believe the reason the other guilds have for requesting this is to put it back to how it should have originally played out. Which I am fine with. Dont forget, I put this up because half a dozen people were asking me to put it back to its original state. If it did get put back it would be how it was supposed to be all along. That outburst of voices when the zone came out would be like it never happened. I only changed it because no one put up any counter arguments to the people complaining. Sure a couple people sent me some private messages but not really enough posted publically in the defense of how the content was designed.

[MyBooBooHurts]

It was counter productive when it first was changed to, why should be now any different?

[erin]

How is this different than the first two mobs? Why do the golems count separately in Chromatic? They are identical, same script, only diff is they have diff colors.

[wolfman4]

If you need to kill the mob for the flawless buff then you the kills should be separate.

[Praetorian]

How is this different than the first two mobs? Why do the golems count separately in Chromatic? They are identical, same script, only diff is they have diff colors.

The reason why is originally, if you read my post in the announcements forum, is that people cried afoul because of the 2 fairies and the 4 plants. You could only choose one per instance so people were claiming guilds using reset items combined with alts opening additional instances to basically get more chances to kill the encounters than were naturally allowed. This was highlighted by Gninja warning certain guilds over the practice recently but not back then. That warning may also have something to do with people wanting the mobs to be changed back to normal progression setup. However, based on the votes it doesnt look like much will change. Which I am fine with regardless. As far as I am concerned this expansion has a giant *asterisk* regardless. With how the zones were released it never allowed a true race for progression. Everyone was always caught up for the most part.

[Requiem-Majdul]

"If you need to kill the mob for the flawless buff then you the kills should be separate."

This is the single biggest answer to "Why should all the mobs be separate"

They were all needed for Flawless buff and all had separate achievements.

[Requiem-Majdul]

The reason why is originally, if you read my post in the announcements forum, is that people cried afoul because of the 2 fairies and the 4 plants. You could only choose one per instance so people were claiming guilds using reset items combined with alts opening additional instances to basically get more chances to kill the encounters than were naturally allowed. This was highlighted by Gninja warning certain guilds over the practice recently but not back then. That warning may also have something to do with people wanting the mobs to be changed back to normal progression setup. However, based on the votes it doesnt look like much will change. Which I am fine with regardless. As far as I am concerned this expansion has a giant *asterisk* regardless. With how the zones were released it never allowed a true race for progression. Everyone was always caught up for the most part.



Honestly... The last 2 expansions (at least if not more) competitions have been trivialized by the way they were treated by Gninja and the release schedule/false gating... I don't expect it to change for the rest of the expansions. He cant seem to make a fair fight that we cannot figure out in one night... he has to gate it by resolve/adorn/faction checks, or he has to launch them with 10x the health and a 45min timer that means no guild no matter the gear progression could kill it. Or of course... BONE

[Praetorian]

Honestly... The last 2 expansions (at least if not more) competitions have been trivialized by the way they were treated by Gninja and the release schedule/false gating... I don't expect it to change for the rest of the expansions. He cant seem to make a fair fight that we cannot figure out in one night... he has to gate it by resolve/adorn/faction checks, or he has to launch them with 10x the health and a 45min timer that means no guild no matter the gear progression could kill it. Or of course... BONE

I agree. There are issues with releasing content in batches. The issue is I am pretty sure he is only one man trying to keep the entire raid scene alive by himself. He has no dedicated assistant. Infact, most of the developers over there pull double if not triple duty on projects. Raiding is a small portion of the main player base and despite it being probably the most dedicated small percent of players, they dont give him the adequate resources to have content ready to go in a timely manner. He said it himself that if didnt have the tier 4 mob gated in Summons he would have even less time to get content ready for the next expansion. Even he needed time where he knew guilds werent going to access a new mob for awhile.

Its rough but thats how it is. Hopefully, he gets some kind of dedicated help to get raid instances up to par so that real progression is once again part of the entire competition. Zone progression..Zone unlocking..all the things that yield a good race to the end.

But I'll say it again though, in the future, I don't care who it affects.. I dont care who feels slighted.. I dont care if you feel its an exploit.. Unless Gninja himself comes out and says a kill is an exploit and changes the achievement ID like he used to in the past... Nothing is being combined or made less valuable to kill ever again. If another guild somehow out thinks you in progressing further with reset items or something that the game allows then that fault is on your guild for not being ready. Whomever kills it first was always the number one rule. I admit I let people sway the argument because of certain mechanics and zone choices, but then you get what I warned about..broken ranks. Never again.

[Praetorian]

I appreciate everyone chiming in though. I dont feel that there is any wrong view to be honest. I view this site as for everyone so I want to make sure that everyone feels they have a voice when something needs to be addressesd. For those who brought up this topic about possible change dont feel anger for those voting No and vice versa. Its good that people stay involved. I might operate the site but this site is still part of whats left of the raiding community... and raiding and what it means for those of us who do it means alot to me. Otherwise I wouldnt keep paying for this shit. lol.

This game lately hasnt been easy for alot of us old time raiders. The competitive spirit in working on content and racing against your fellow peers hasnt really been as fulfilling lately. So, it can be frustrating. I get it. I am not bitter against anyone. Everyone is passionate in what their point of view is on this subject because not everyone sees things in the same light. Which is why I will never be angry at anyone for voicing their displeasure at something. So, if anyone has subjects to bring up beyond this thread you can ask me on the EQ2 Discord and Ill be more than happy to answer best I can.

[wolfman4]

Considering guilds have made progression-kill based decisions after it was decided, I'd say no.... This has been live for months now.

Not true. The plants were individual kills from the beginning but for some unknown reason 2 of the plants were given more points than the other two and the argument was made to change them all to the same point value. The imbalance of points turned into luck on who killed the higher point mobs first. It was then arbitrarily decided to just lump the plants together which was the original wrong decision. They should have all been given the same point value and LEFT as individual kills because each one is required for progression of the flawless buff....the same way the two Golem are each a T1 progression kill. So it needs to be changed back to what it was in the beginning and correct the incorrect point values.

[Solange]

I rarely post on things like this but honestly changing things at this stage in the expac is a bit ridiculous. Guidelines on this need to be set from the start and not randomly changed throughout the expac multiple times because no one can make up their minds or don't like where something places them. Granted, extenuating circumstances may need a change once in a blue moon, but not this ping-pong stuff all the time. It is getting old.

[Praetorian]

Not true. The plants were individual kills from the beginning but for some unknown reason 2 of the plants were given more points than the other two and the argument was made to change them all to the same point value. The imbalance of points turned into luck on who killed the higher point mobs first. It was then arbitrarily decided to just lump the plants together which was the original wrong decision. They should have all been given the same point value and LEFT as individual kills because each one is required for progression of the flawless buff....the same way the two Golem are each a T1 progression kill. So it needs to be changed back to what it was in the beginning and correct the incorrect point values.

Lets not spread misinformation. No encounters were worth more than others just arbitrarily. I went over this in a previous post. If you dont understand how the progression scoring works, just ask please. I will be more than happy to explain it one on one. Some plants were worth LESS because more guilds killed those first. There was 4 to choose from and some of the plants were just chosen more than others by luck of the draw. Same with the fairies. The guilds that got more points on one plant would have gotten less on the others so they would have balanced eachother out eventually. Every mob starts with the same point value every time based on its raid tier. It never changes.


I rarely post on things like this but honestly changing things at this stage in the expac is a bit ridiculous. Guidelines on this need to be set from the start and not randomly changed throughout the expac multiple times because no one can make up their minds or don't like where something places them. Granted, extenuating circumstances may need a change once in a blue moon, but not this ping-pong stuff all the time. It is getting old.

Again, just so people dont get misled there was no ping ponging of any kind. Its pretty simple. Zone opened up. Zone has particular progression mechanic where you can only choose 2 of 6 mobs to kill per zone in. Guilds use Reset items (that some other guilds didnt have) and also used alts to open additional instances to get more pulls on encounters than would normally be allowed. (Gninja brought this very subject up and warned guilds of it) So, naturally people complained about it being unfair that some guilds new this ahead of time because of beta testing or exploiting or whatever and started a large discussion on discord. Hardly anyone argued against them at the time. Had there been more push back to NOT change things, they might not have been changed. But there were many more voices to condense the encounters as thats what was done. One modification. Not many times throughout the expansion. So please dont mislead people.

[Praetorian]

Just wanted to say that I appreciate everyone chiming in though. There isnt an overwhelming majority voting yes right now and there is still just as many no votes. I dont think changing it after all this time without a vast majority would be the correct action to take. I still thank you guys for providing your comments on the subject regardless of your position. For those who brought up this topic about possible change dont feel anger for those voting No and vice versa for those voting Yes. Its good that people stay involved. I might operate the site but this site is still part of whats left of the raiding community... and raiding and what it means for those of us who do it means alot to me. Otherwise I wouldnt keep paying for this shit. lol.

This game lately hasnt been easy for alot of us old time raiders. The competitive spirit in working on content and racing against your fellow peers hasnt really been as fulfilling lately. So, it can be frustrating. I get it. I am not bitter against anyone. Everyone is passionate in what their point of view is on this subject because not everyone sees things in the same light. Which is why I will never be angry at anyone for voicing their displeasure at something. So, if anyone has subjects to bring up beyond this thread you can DM me on the EQ2 Discord and Ill be more than happy to answer best I can.